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DeniseLawson
Moderator



USA
810 Posts

Posted - Jun 11 2008 :  1:52:54 PM  Show Profile Send DeniseLawson a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by GScheid

I don't know what I would do right now. And yes, i've considered not voting at all for a presidential candidate. Interested in how the Church will come out on this one?

Gerry

“Everyone needs thirty minutes of personal prayer time each day, unless they are too busy to pray—in which case, they need an hour!”
Saint Francis de Sales



Seems to me the Catechism is pretty clear on that one:

quote:
2240 Submission to authority and co-responsibility for the common good make it morally obligatory to pay taxes, to exercise the right to vote, and to defend one's country:

Pay to all of them their dues, taxes to whom taxes are due, revenue to whom revenue is due, respect to whom respect is due, honor to whom honor is due.

[Christians] reside in their own nations, but as resident aliens. They participate in all things as citizens and endure all things as foreigners. . . . They obey the established laws and their way of life surpasses the laws. . . . So noble is the position to which God has assigned them that they are not allowed to desert it.

The Apostle exhorts us to offer prayers and thanksgiving for kings and all who exercise authority, "that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life, godly and respectful in every way."


Not to mention - exercising the right to vote is the duty of every responsible citizen of voting age.

Jesus meek and humble of heart, make my heart like yours.
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GScheid
Mary's Servant



USA
407 Posts

Posted - Jun 12 2008 :  08:53:23 AM  Show Profile Send GScheid a Private Message
But cant be voting for people not in favor of Life? The one candidate is very pro-Abortion--cant vote for someone in favor of the continuance (and seemingly wants more of it) of killing babies.

Gerry

Mother Teresa:

But I feel that the greatest destroyer of peace today is abortion, because it is a war against the child - a direct killing of the innocent child - murder by the mother herself. And if we accept that a mother can kill even her own child, how can we tell other people not to kill one another? Any country that accepts abortion is not teaching the people to love, but to use any violence to get what they want. That is why the greatest destroyer of love and peace is abortion.


“Everyone needs thirty minutes of personal prayer time each day, unless they are too busy to pray—in which case, they need an hour!”
Saint Francis de Sales
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GScheid
Mary's Servant



USA
407 Posts

Posted - Jun 12 2008 :  10:23:20 AM  Show Profile Send GScheid a Private Message
John McCain IS Pro-life
Posted on February 01, 2008, 2:51 PM | Deal W. Hudson

Mark, you can also take up the question of McCain's pro-life voting record with the head of Priests for Life, Fr. Frank Pavone who said to McCain on a call I organized that the senator had a "clear and convincing pro-life voting record." If you don't believe Fr. Pavone, you might take a look at NARAL's rating of McCain, which is ZERO. Here is NARAL's comment:

"Sen. John McCain served in the U.S. House of Representatives from 1983 to 1986 and in the U.S. Senate from 1987 to the present. During his four years in the House, then#8208;Rep. McCain cast 11 votes on abortion and other reproductive#8208;rights issues. Ten of these votes were anti#8208;choice. In the Senate, Sen. McCain has cast 117 votes on abortion and
other reproductive#8208;rights issues, 113 of which were anti#8208;choice.
In addition to his solidly anti#8208;choice record, Sen. McCain has never cosponsored or supported legislation that would prevent unintended pregnancy or reduce the need for abortion."

If NARAL thinks he is anti-pro-choice, Fr. Pavone thinks he is pro-life, along with Sen. Brownback, then I think the label fits.

I am disappointed in his stand on embryonic stem cell research, just as I am with Mitt Romney and President Bush on the same issue. Bush, as you know, allowed federal funds to be spent on the 50+ existing stem cell lines. Romney would "allow" private funding of the same.

The pro-lifers I have heard from complain less about his record than the fact that he has not seemed a "friend" of the movement. Fair enough.
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“Everyone needs thirty minutes of personal prayer time each day, unless they are too busy to pray—in which case, they need an hour!”
Saint Francis de Sales
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DeniseLawson
Moderator



USA
810 Posts

Posted - Jun 12 2008 :  12:30:27 PM  Show Profile Send DeniseLawson a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by GScheid

But cant be voting for people not in favor of Life? The one candidate is very pro-Abortion--cant vote for someone in favor of the continuance (and seemingly wants more of it) of killing babies.

Gerry

Mother Teresa:

But I feel that the greatest destroyer of peace today is abortion, because it is a war against the child - a direct killing of the innocent child - murder by the mother herself. And if we accept that a mother can kill even her own child, how can we tell other people not to kill one another? Any country that accepts abortion is not teaching the people to love, but to use any violence to get what they want. That is why the greatest destroyer of love and peace is abortion.


“Everyone needs thirty minutes of personal prayer time each day, unless they are too busy to pray—in which case, they need an hour!”
Saint Francis de Sales



And everything I've given you is directly from Church teaching. Are you saying you know better than the Church, which deliberately does not place a complete ban on voting for candidates who are not completely against abortion? If so, pretty presumptuous, don't you think?

The only out and out wrong vote is to vote for someone you know is pro-abortion precisely because they are pro-abortion. That seems pretty clear to me, so I'm not really sure why the confusion, unless the sin of scrupulosity is coming into play here.

Jesus meek and humble of heart, make my heart like yours.
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Mommy
Formation



USA
34 Posts

Posted - Jun 18 2008 :  10:01:30 AM  Show Profile Send Mommy a Private Message
McCain will get my vote because he is pro-life. Obama is SO pro-death that as a Catholic it should be a no-brainer to NOT vote for him. If Alan Keyes or Michael Steele were running, I would vote for them. They are both pro-life. The money issues can take care of themselves. God will always take care of us if we ask Him. As a mother, Obama the baby-killer can just stay out of the Presidential office. If you want sin to advance more in this country, vote for Obama, or even worse, don't vote at all.
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GScheid
Mary's Servant



USA
407 Posts

Posted - Jun 19 2008 :  10:11:41 AM  Show Profile Send GScheid a Private Message
I am waiting to see what the US Catholic bishops have to say on this matter--although I am not holding my breath. Not sure I trust McCain--especially on stem cell and the like. Surely can't trust Obama and his fervent pro-Abortion stand. And I still can't see how the Church to allow voting for someone who supports Abortion like he and surely will worsen it if he is elected.

Gerry

“Everyone needs thirty minutes of personal prayer time each day, unless they are too busy to pray—in which case, they need an hour!”
Saint Francis de Sales
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Lil Flora
Mary's Servant



118 Posts

Posted - Oct 14 2008 :  6:51:36 PM  Show Profile Send Lil Flora a Private Message
Good thing I'm going third party... less chance of collateral damage that way!

St. Flora, Patroness of abandoned people, pray for us
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Pro-life Sarah
Moderator



653 Posts

Posted - Oct 16 2008 :  5:42:02 PM  Show Profile Send Pro-life Sarah a Private Message
Not really....third parties are helpful in bringing up the issues in an election, but because the US is really a two party system, a vote for a third party detracts from a vote for life. Kind of like if you aren't with us, you are against us.... but I certainly don't mean to sound attacking or judgemental....just something to think about.

Take Care and God Bless,
Sarah

Please say one Hail Mary a day for the intentions all forum members
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GScheid
Mary's Servant



USA
407 Posts

Posted - Mar 06 2009 :  07:53:47 AM  Show Profile Send GScheid a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by GScheid

John McCain IS Pro-life
Posted on February 01, 2008, 2:51 PM | Deal W. Hudson

Mark, you can also take up the question of McCain's pro-life voting record with the head of Priests for Life, Fr. Frank Pavone who said to McCain on a call I organized that the senator had a "clear and convincing pro-life voting record." If you don't believe Fr. Pavone, you might take a look at NARAL's rating of McCain, which is ZERO. Here is NARAL's comment:

"Sen. John McCain served in the U.S. House of Representatives from 1983 to 1986 and in the U.S. Senate from 1987 to the present. During his four years in the House, then#8208;Rep. McCain cast 11 votes on abortion and other reproductive#8208;rights issues. Ten of these votes were anti#8208;choice. In the Senate, Sen. McCain has cast 117 votes on abortion and
other reproductive#8208;rights issues, 113 of which were anti#8208;choice.
In addition to his solidly anti#8208;choice record, Sen. McCain has never cosponsored or supported legislation that would prevent unintended pregnancy or reduce the need for abortion."

If NARAL thinks he is anti-pro-choice, Fr. Pavone thinks he is pro-life, along with Sen. Brownback, then I think the label fits.

I am disappointed in his stand on embryonic stem cell research, just as I am with Mitt Romney and President Bush on the same issue. Bush, as you know, allowed federal funds to be spent on the 50+ existing stem cell lines. Romney would "allow" private funding of the same.

The pro-lifers I have heard from complain less about his record than the fact that he has not seemed a "friend" of the movement. Fair enough.
You must be logged in to see this link.

“Everyone needs thirty minutes of personal prayer time each day, unless they are too busy to pray—in which case, they need an hour!”
Saint Francis de Sales



With pro-lifers like Senator Sam Brownback, who needs pro-aborts?

Moral theologians can work out what level of cooperation in evil the Senator's endorsement represents - he is, after all, an influential senator whose opposition, if he had given it, may very well have stopped her nomination. Yet, those of us who do not breathe the rarified air of Washington DC and who have dedicated our lives to defending the sanctity of human life understand one thing: any covenant with the abortion industry or its promoters is consent to the killing. As a convert to the Catholic Faith, Senator Brownback seems not to understand the Church's profoundly wounded heart with regard the slaughter of the innocents. The Church tells us never to participate in that slaughter, no matter what the cost; we do not give aid and comfort to the enemies of human life, we do not stand by while the innocent are being dragged off to a violent murder, and under no circumstances do we endorse the political aspirations of their executioners. Politicians who sell the lives of babies for political gains are the worst kind of turncoats.

Yet, this Catholic Senator's decision constitutes, I think, a watershed moment for all of us who want to see an end to the immoral industry of baby-killing in our country. We will never be served by the compromise of our principles in any form. Catholicism is the solution to this culture of death. If only Catholics ourselves would fully live up to our doctrine and put it into practice, there would be no "Tiller the Killer"s in Kansas, no partial birth abortions, no immoral sex education in the schools or Planned Parenthoods dominating our public life. Self-described "Catholics" like Brownback (in politics), Doug Kmiec (in academia), Hannity, Matthews and O'Reilly (in media) and others are not the solution to the problem - they are enablers of the problem. Despite their high-sounding lip service to the culture of life, they are compromisers. They will never end abortion because they don't want to end abortion.

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